Definitions of unacceptable promoter behaviour

This site does not support pay-to-play venues or promoters.

'Pay-To-Play' is a catch-all term defined by this site in the following way:

1) Any venue/promoter asking for payment in advance OF ANY KIND from a band as a condition of their performance whether that payment be in the form of a fee or a 'refundable deposit' which is paid back to the band incrementally, based upon audience numbers for that act.

2) Any venue/promoter requiring payment in advance to purchase tickets which the act must then sell on.

3) Any venue/promoter requiring acts to meet a specified number of ticket sales as a condition of their booking. Acts may be asked to sell tickets as long as it is NOT a condition.


Our philosophy is quite simple: Musicians play live music, promoters promote live music. Bands will, wherever possible try to drum up interest in their appearance at your event. However, as promoters YOU are expected to promote your events to your own local music market.

If you fall into any of the categories above, please don't post your details here. Otherwise, welcome to the board!

The kasbah then?

Category 3 is a common condition for larger venues (400+ from my own experience)....

Dont make it right ......

Daswikinger wrote:Category 3 is a common condition for larger venues (400+ from my own experience)....

Yeah, I know what you mean.

It's not a problem if they're just asking bands to sell tickets. It becomes a problem for us when it's a condition of them playing i.e. if they don't sell a certain number they don't get on stage.

I know it goes on and that it's fairly common place - we just say that we reserve the right not to support any such promoter by advertising their details here.

Ultimately, it's down to the bands whether or not they want to play for these people or if the gig is worth it. But this section is intended, as far as is possible, to build a list of (mostly) small venue promoters who are going to at least treat our local bands with some respect and not rip them off

BTW, I've taken out number 4 as it's a bit of a grey area really - every promoter is going to ask if a band has any pulling power aren't they.

Platform Promotions in B'ham (if we're naming and shaming?)

Mithy DLR wrote:Dont make it right ......

To be fair to them, I've never heard of them forcing bands to sell tickets to get to play; they ask them if they can sell a certain amount of tickets, but if the band doesn't sell them, they're not going to drop them off the bill.

At the end of the day, the Kasbah's a nightclub, not a music venue. They put live music on to make money, not because they want to. It's sad but that's business. If they're not going to make any money from putting bands on, (I.E. ticket sales) then why would they do it?

It's still one of the best places round here to play. As far as I can think, the Kasbah and the Crew are the only places where you get to play in front of a non-muso crowd. That, and they throw in a crate of beer too.

Now stop moaning

Smokey wrote:

Mithy DLR wrote:Dont make it right ......

To be fair to them, I've never heard of them forcing bands to sell tickets to get to play; they ask them if they can sell a certain amount of tickets, but if the band doesn't sell them, they're not going to drop them off the bill.

At the end of the day, the Kasbah's a nightclub, not a music venue. They put live music on to make money, not because they want to. It's sad but that's business. If they're not going to make any money from putting bands on, (I.E. ticket sales) then why would they do it?

It's still one of the best places round here to play. As far as I can think, the Kasbah and the Crew are the only places where you get to play in front of a non-muso crowd. That, and they throw in a crate of beer too.

Now stop moaning

I know of atleast two bands who were told if they didnt sell the set number of tickets they would be dropped off the bill

Haven't heard of that personally, but if that's the case then fuck the miserable bastards.

One of the was The Hearing supporting Oceansize and i wont name tuther because they might not want me too

no they might not mithy!! ;-)

Smokey wrote:

Mithy DLR wrote:Dont make it right ......

They put live music on to make money, not because they want to. It's sad but that's business. If they're not going to make any money from putting bands on, (I.E. ticket sales) then why would they do it?

I agree that bands should promote themselves, for their own benefit. But like I said before, bands play and promoters promote - if they're reliant on bands selling tickets to generate an audience, they need to get a proper promoter in.

Kasbah's simply a money machine - not interested in local music or the people involved in it. But who can blame them? As long as they're taking your money, why should they give a fuck.

And a crate of beer?? There's a little pub in Nuneaton called The Fleur - It probably takes him a month to make what the Kasbah makes in one night, but he splits £100 between the two bands he puts on on a Friday night because he doesn't believe people should work for nothing

That's why I never bother going to the Kasbah - I'd rather give my money to the little fella so that he can pass it on to the bands who help keep him in business.

i ain't the argumentative type as some are aware but have to say the kasbah have only ever done good by me and the bands i play/played in.

yeah, they don't pay you for the standard gigs but you do get a couple of crates of beer which is more than anywhere in brum gives

but what you do get is the opportunity to impress and then get a good support slot in the main room. I'd happily play a gig for free to get that kind of opportunity

so far i've supported Gary Numan and The Charlatans in the main room, both sold out and both fantastic nights

it cracks me up how so many bands slate the promoter in public then wonder why they aren't offered any of the decent gigs!

Thats the big gigs tho Riggy, if they cant sell out Gary Numan or The Charlatans without stooping to pay2play they should just shut down now

we didn't have to sell any tickets for either gig mate, in fact for the charlatans we only sold about 5 tickets and had 5 guestlist spots at £20 a throw

That was my point

Wasn't one of the kasbah examples not actually their fault (directly at least)?
I seem to remember an out of town promoter ("livemusic" or something like that) putting on a few nights there where they made ticket sales a condition of playing.

My view is that getting paid to do an unsigned gig should be a bonus and not an expectation, some generous venues and promoters do it and that's great.
But by the same token, I don't believe any unsigned band should have to part with money to play a gig. Jesus, it costs us all enough to buy our gear and in most cases to pay for rehearsal rooms (I got lucky on the 2nd point with free rehearsal space).

No both examples i am aware of are the Colly inhouse people

Martin - The Red List wrote:Wasn't one of the kasbah examples not actually their fault (directly at least)?
I seem to remember an out of town promoter ("livemusic" or something like that) putting on a few nights there where they made ticket sales a condition of playing.

My view is that getting paid to do an unsigned gig should be a bonus and not an expectation, some generous venues and promoters do it and that's great.
But by the same token, I don't believe any unsigned band should have to part with money to play a gig. Jesus, it costs us all enough to buy our gear and in most cases to pay for rehearsal rooms (I got lucky on the 2nd point with free rehearsal space).

Are you referring to 'Imagine Live' with your first paragraph?

Also Martin I whole heartedly disagree that being paid should be classed as 'a bonus' it is an attitude like that which causes promoters to get away with fobbing bands off with a crate of beer as opposed to payment.

Why should covers bands be able to easily demand a £1k a night wage and an unsigned band who actually work and write their own music get fuck all?

Ciaran MBE wrote:

Martin - The Red List wrote:Wasn't one of the kasbah examples not actually their fault (directly at least)?
I seem to remember an out of town promoter ("livemusic" or something like that) putting on a few nights there where they made ticket sales a condition of playing.

My view is that getting paid to do an unsigned gig should be a bonus and not an expectation, some generous venues and promoters do it and that's great.
But by the same token, I don't believe any unsigned band should have to part with money to play a gig. Jesus, it costs us all enough to buy our gear and in most cases to pay for rehearsal rooms (I got lucky on the 2nd point with free rehearsal space).

Are you referring to 'Imagine Live' with your first paragraph?

Also Martin I whole heartedly disagree that being paid should be classed as 'a bonus' it is an attitude like that which causes promoters to get away with fobbing bands off with a crate of beer as opposed to payment.

Why should covers bands be able to easily demand a £1k a night wage and an unsigned band who actually work and write their own music get fuck all?

Because 95% of the general public don't give a shit about, and certainly aren't prepared to pay to hear new music.

Smokey wrote:

Ciaran MBE wrote:

Martin - The Red List wrote:Wasn't one of the kasbah examples not actually their fault (directly at least)?
I seem to remember an out of town promoter ("livemusic" or something like that) putting on a few nights there where they made ticket sales a condition of playing.

My view is that getting paid to do an unsigned gig should be a bonus and not an expectation, some generous venues and promoters do it and that's great.
But by the same token, I don't believe any unsigned band should have to part with money to play a gig. Jesus, it costs us all enough to buy our gear and in most cases to pay for rehearsal rooms (I got lucky on the 2nd point with free rehearsal space).

Are you referring to 'Imagine Live' with your first paragraph?

Also Martin I whole heartedly disagree that being paid should be classed as 'a bonus' it is an attitude like that which causes promoters to get away with fobbing bands off with a crate of beer as opposed to payment.

Why should covers bands be able to easily demand a £1k a night wage and an unsigned band who actually work and write their own music get fuck all?

Because 95% of the general public don't give a shit about, and certainly aren't prepared to pay to hear new music.

Really? I've put on at least 6 nights where i've got a room packed with the general public and as a result the bands walk off with a decent pocketful. Promoters have just got either lazy and greedy. The only reason the general public dont give a shit about Coventry music is because they dont know about it.

Do it every week

Ciaran MBE wrote:

Smokey wrote:

Ciaran MBE wrote:

Martin - The Red List wrote:Wasn't one of the kasbah examples not actually their fault (directly at least)?
I seem to remember an out of town promoter ("livemusic" or something like that) putting on a few nights there where they made ticket sales a condition of playing.

My view is that getting paid to do an unsigned gig should be a bonus and not an expectation, some generous venues and promoters do it and that's great.
But by the same token, I don't believe any unsigned band should have to part with money to play a gig. Jesus, it costs us all enough to buy our gear and in most cases to pay for rehearsal rooms (I got lucky on the 2nd point with free rehearsal space).

Are you referring to 'Imagine Live' with your first paragraph?

Also Martin I whole heartedly disagree that being paid should be classed as 'a bonus' it is an attitude like that which causes promoters to get away with fobbing bands off with a crate of beer as opposed to payment.

Why should covers bands be able to easily demand a £1k a night wage and an unsigned band who actually work and write their own music get fuck all?

Because 95% of the general public don't give a shit about, and certainly aren't prepared to pay to hear new music.

Really? I've put on at least 6 nights where i've got a room packed with the general public and as a result the bands walk off with a decent pocketful. Promoters have just got either lazy and greedy. The only reason the general public dont give a shit about Coventry music is because they dont know about it.

Crikey, this is a long one to follow up on - here goes...

Yes, "Imagine Live" is who I was thinking about re Kasbah, and I'm sure I'm right about what they did there.

Ciaran, you must have been paid for more gigs than I have. To me and my band, it's still a rarity and therefore I (personal view) consider it a bonus. From a promoter point of view (and I've had a few goes myself), I've always paid the bands who've played for me too (ask any of them).

Also, do we on this site fall into the 95% of the public who really don't care about original music? I doubt it very much. Therefore, we only have our own anecdotal views about this - just trying to introduce some perspective!

Martin - The Red List wrote:To me and my band, it's still a rarity and therefore I (personal view) consider it a bonus. From a promoter point of view (and I've had a few goes myself), I've always paid the bands who've played for me too (ask any of them).

How many promoters do you ask for payment from?

I think most bands have the issue that they don't ask for payment, a promoter or venue isn't just going to throw money at you if they don't have to.