Re: Godiva AfterShow Party @The Dog & Trumpet

by Sound Foundry Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:00 am

I totally agree and as I said first off, I'm not an engineer and never have claimed to be. I was there to operate. But what I do know is that the system in there is an utter mess. I've seen a lot of sound systems in my time and I don't believe I need to be an engineer to immediately tell when a sound system has not been used by professional engineers. You have to admit that it's all a bit mickey mouse

Like you said, there ARE a lot of people who claim to be sound engineers but who clearly are not and that is what that system has suffered from.

Also, I know pretty much all of the people you've mentioned above and yes, they would probably be able to 'figure it out'. But not one as far as I'm aware would ever suggest it's anything other than a mess, working or not.

by blitzsounds Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:14 am

In terms of a professional rig - no it's not great. I wouldn't tour with it. But in terms of a working sound rig in a venue that can actually get a good sound out of... I wouldn't say it's a mess. It's just not a lap of luxury. Nothing wrong with the amps, nothing wrong with the drivers (all though i think one of the tweeters is on it's last legs), nothing wrong with the cabling. The monitors need upgrading and more feeds providing undoubtably and the desk needs to be replaced with a small spirit folio or the like. But what i don't folow is where it can be justified to say that it's a mess. It's running a lot better than the Tuns one had been in it's last few months - just coulda done with Tony's desk and some powered monitors (many more amps in the back room and i think the place will be better suited as a sauna!).

by blitzsounds Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:23 am

Sound Foundry wrote:
Like you said, there ARE a lot of people who claim to be sound engineers but who clearly are not and that is what that system has suffered from.

Totally agree with this bit though. Whoever provided this equipment as a decent install rig should be ashamed. It has taken a lot of time effort and tlc to get it up to a reasonable working state. As i said - you should have seen it when were told to sort it out - multicore hanging from the wall (which we dragged through the ceiling cavity), amps not matched properly to speakers, wired in mono from a single panned source (which i could never get my head round as there were enough amps to do it in stereo!), the wiring was in a state, sometimes using bell wire for speaker feeds and running cables across the walls instead of pulling them through cavities. The desk was in a worse state than it is now too. We got 4 working modules sorted out of some of the dead ones. We put the graphic and zoner in too to try and make life easier for band nights. Woulda been nice to just rip it all out and bored a brand new system in though but i knew Steve wouldn't be willing to fork out for that.

by Ray Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:26 am

Would it deal with some Gabba Techno ?

by Martin Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:14 pm

Martin - The Red List wrote:
blitzsounds wrote:What happened?
Interesting that you should ask that question - you may wanna have a word with Tom at D&T about the PA...

Without getting into long debating about the workings/quality of the PA at the Dog, there were 2 things that rang alarm bells with me instantly:
1. Monitors - PA systems are supposed to have them? Missing, therefore, no foldback at all.
2. John and I opened up the mixing desk flight case to be greeted with a note that started "Mate, what the fuck have you done to the PA?" Now, J, if you're the "mate" in question, then I refer back to my quote at the top of this, ie. have a word with Tom.

As far as I was aware, John was asked (by Dan) to operate the desk for a one-off gig - not to have to start pieceing bits of the PA system back together.

by Sound Foundry Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:19 pm

Yes. Jamie, I think you're perhaps confusing what you feel the system should have been like as you remember it, with what we saw the other night.

Anybody, even an engineer, coming into that situation cold would have said the same thing - it's a mess. The first thing an unfamiliar engineer would have had to do, is spend an unnecessary amount of time trying to 'figure it out'.

It's not a situation I would allow iif it were my venue.

Anyway, this conversation is a little pointless really, because we're not qualified engineers - I certainly don't know anywhere near enough to argue the technical aspects of in-house PA systems. But I have been working in venues for long enough to know that it's not done like that.

Apart from the initial stresses, I enjoyed myself the other night - I got to watch 3 excellent bands (which I don't get much chance to do these days), I got to put faces to people from on here which was an absolute pleasure to meet them, and I got to see some friends I haven't seen for a while - MarkyG, Amazing G, Steve Cater who is a good friend of mine and Paul the doorman.

I feel sorry for Dan and the bands that it wasn't better attended, but shit happens. Sometimes if you build it, they DON'T come.

Anyway for me this conversation has run its course, so if you all don't mind I'm going to do something else - no snottyness intended, I just don't see the point.

Thanks for the gig Dan and thanks to the bands for providing the best part of the evening.

Very Happy

by blitzsounds Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:55 am

Martin - The Red List wrote:
Without getting into long debating about the workings/quality of the PA at the Dog, there were 2 things that rang alarm bells with me instantly:
1. Monitors - PA systems are supposed to have them? Missing, therefore, no foldback at all.
2. John and I opened up the mixing desk flight case to be greeted with a note that started "Mate, what the fuck have you done to the PA?" Now, J, if you're the "mate" in question, then I refer back to my quote at the top of this, ie. have a word with Tom.

As far as I was aware, John was asked (by Dan) to operate the desk for a one-off gig - not to have to start pieceing bits of the PA system back together.

1. Monitors - There are 3 fully functioning monitors (though only 2 channels of amplifier). Since we put our graphic in that has freed up the 2 channels of graphic on the front of house rack sat next to the desk. Dan was warned that there were only 2 in there and that's why we put our own mons in.
2. Now that bit does intrigue me. May suggest that something have been done since we last engineered in there. What the fuck we had done is rewire Tom's setup so it was wired in an industry standard way so an engineer would be able to easily suss what was done instead of Tom's interesting that HSE woulda gone balistic over let alone any sane engineer.

I understand John's point about him not allowing that if it was his venue. But we've been allowed to spend the bare minimum and have had to have it so the desk is packed away each night along with monitors. I too would rather see a permanant setup for a venue. But then on a more positive note it does encourage only engineers to use the rigs which is what it should be anyway instead of people who have a friend that's a DJ or whatever tends to be the trend with most "engineers". Also found it's a good place to take work experience students to begin training for engineering because of the fact that it does have to be pieced together.

by Rig Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:10 am

if i wanted a jigsaw i'd go to a toy shop

by Kid Icarus Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:13 am

+1 to Riggles for the giggles!

by blitzsounds Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:36 am

Rig wrote:if i wanted a jigsaw i'd go to a toy shop

Cheers for that Rig...

by Mithy DLR Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:37 am

-1 for Jamie for being a homourless coconut

by blitzsounds Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:41 am

What's the lowest a Rep can go? I'm not far behind Near Dark now! Very Happy

It was a funny comment to be fair to Rig just didn't really support my cause! Lol!

by Kid Icarus Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:00 am

blitzsounds wrote:What's the lowest a Rep can go?

A MITHY PREDICTIVE RESPONSE wrote:Not as low as you etc

by Dale Hermit Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:08 pm

blitzsounds wrote:What's the lowest a Rep can go?

It's going to be fun finding out.

by Martin Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:21 pm

blitzsounds wrote:
Rig wrote:if i wanted a jigsaw i'd go to a toy shop

Cheers for that Rig...

Rig's right though, a PA jigsaw is just about what we found!
John's right too, this debate about the PA in the Dog is kinda pointless (horse, stable door?)

by blitzsounds Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:40 am

Martin - The Red List wrote:

Rig's right though, a PA jigsaw is just about what we found!

Then knowing that would it not of made sense to call someone that knew? And to be fair surely when you're putting a gig on and NOT using the in house engineer then your engineer would scope out the venue first? In fact would you guys not have done so anyway if you were looking at a potential venue? Do you often walk blind into venues without knowing the equipment or general setup of everything in there?

by Bratby Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:43 am

blitzsounds wrote:
Martin - The Red List wrote:

Rig's right though, a PA jigsaw is just about what we found!

Then knowing that would it not of made sense to call someone that knew? And to be fair surely when you're putting a gig on and NOT using the in house engineer then your engineer would scope out the venue first? In fact would you guys not have done so anyway if you were looking at a potential venue? Do you often walk blind into venues without knowing the equipment or general setup of everything in there?

Are you still trying to get them to bite or something? They have said it was a mess you obviously don't agree.... so leave it......

by Sound Foundry Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:46 am

by Bratby Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:54 am

+1 to John....

by Mithy DLR Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:56 am

agreed +1

how was oasis Bratters?
we won the football without you so ... y'know

by Bratby Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:06 am

Mithy DLR wrote:agreed +1

how was oasis Bratters?
we won the football without you so ... y'know

Yeah you muppet cause they didn't turn up! You missed me admit it haha, Oasis were wicked, First 3 songs was shite tho sound was terrible at first and wanted to walk out so moved a bit further down and then Oasis did the rest of the drunken sing along. The Enemy were actually ok too, I had been drinking mind.....

by Mithy DLR Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:15 am

we missed the bratmobile

by krissy Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:20 am

After the way I was treated there can't really reccomend the place. Shame as I used to love it.

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